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Topic: 3 against 4 polyrhythms (Read 2623 times)

romanticperiod

PS Silver Member
Newbie
Posts: 22

3 against 4 polyrhythms

on: May 25, 2021, 07:53:30 AM

Hi, I am an amateur who has recently started. Does anyone have some good practice material for 3 against 4 polyrhythms like there are in the Fantasie impromptu?
Thanks a lot!

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quantum

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Sr. Member
Posts: 6223

Re: 3 against 4 polyrhythms

Reply #1 on: May 25, 2021, 08:22:06 AM

Get to know the following rhythm, write it out on paper:

Dotted eighth, sixteenth, eighth, eighth, sixteenth, dotted eighth.

Tap/clap with your hands.

Now practice the following tapping pattern with both hands (where T means tap both hands at the same time, R = right hand, L = left hand)

T R L R L R

also the inverse

T L R L R L

Now put the two together, tap the pattern using the rhythm.

Next to add verbal counting.

Count 1,2,3,4 - while tapping the hand pattern in rhythm, it will align with one of your hands.

Count 1,2,3 - while tapping the hand pattern in rhythm, it will align with the other hand.

Go through all variations of the above, flipping between R/L hand patterns and counting patterns. Be able to flip to another variant without stopping and restarting.

Want more?
Do all of the above while walking. It will give you a 2-3-4 polyrhythm. Of course, you need to do the variants as well without stopping.

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romanticperiod

PS Silver Member
Newbie
Posts: 22

Re: 3 against 4 polyrhythms

Reply #2 on: May 25, 2021, 05:07:46 PM

Thanks a whole lot!

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antune

PS Silver Member
Jr. Member
Posts: 61

Re: 3 against 4 polyrhythms

Reply #3 on: May 25, 2021, 11:05:53 PM

Hi, maybe this could be helpful?

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I've also included three exercises for 3 vs. 4 practicing which you can download for free.
Good luck

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antune

PS Silver Member
Jr. Member
Posts: 61

Re: 3 against 4 polyrhythms

Reply #4 on: May 25, 2021, 11:10:33 PM

Sorry, I thought you were asking specifically for Fantaisie-Impromptu. Just realized you were not.

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j_tour

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 3839

Re: 3 against 4 polyrhythms

Reply #5 on: May 26, 2021, 02:10:31 AM

I defer to quantum on this one: I've been doing 3:2 (or 2:3) since almost the beginning of classical training, and the way I was taught was more or less a shortcut.

You know, almost subdividing and hitting the right keys at the right time. And, that method certainly works. I don't exactly how to describe it, but it's really beginning with the sound/feel and "trapping" the errant note in triplets at the right place in between.

But doing it like a true orchestral percussionist or a competent drummer on the trap drums involves a bit more, and this and other polyrhythms are still things I play around with, sort of abstractly. Without that much success. But 3:2 or 5:4 come up often enough that it's worth getting them down, or at least an approximation of them.

However, if it's any encouragement to the OP, it can be pretty easy to get the right sound, if you're listening and if it's the right piece of music for one's stage of development.

I think most of the usual suspects in typical student rep, like, say the Brahms Op. 118 A major intermezzo, or the Debussy Arabesque really just require the basic idea, and good voicing and articulation takes care of the rest.

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lostinidlewonder

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Posts: 7521

Re: 3 against 4 polyrhythms

Reply #6 on: May 26, 2021, 03:10:49 AM

If you want another approach without looking at "the leaves of the tree" you can can take two systems of 3vs4 and merely pay attention to when they come together at the start, then create the independant eveness in time for the individual hands to come to those points. It is using the independant eveness of each hand and binding them with the dependence of them coming together at the start of each system. That can be a short cut for many people. When I sight read difficult syncopation that is what I am doing predominantly and it solves it fast and well for me.

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romanticperiod

PS Silver Member
Newbie
Posts: 22

Re: 3 against 4 polyrhythms

Reply #7 on: May 28, 2021, 09:11:09 AM

Quote from: antune on May 25, 2021, 11:10:33 PM

Sorry, I thought you were asking specifically for Fantaisie-Impromptu. Just realized you were not.

I am asking this question to find exercises that will help me build up to this piece so its very usefull!

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